I’ve noticed a new trend in evangelicalism, and that is the “Howard Stern” approach to appealing to people in order to get them to like you and listen to you.
Chris over at “A Little Leaven” demonstrates how this has also crept into “Christian” bands as well, with the title of a new album called “The Other F-Word.”
In the comments on his site, I said,
“This is like the new breed of preachers who preach “I Hate Christians” and then rail on and on about what they hate about Christians, with the punch line eventually being, “Oh yeah, the one I hate the most is me!”
We can do without the bait and switch shock-jock presentation. Just preach the Word, it doesn’t need man’s gimmicks to be relevant and powerful!
We don’t need Wally The Weiner, XXXMas and Pimpin’ Jesus, and “The Other F-Word” to shock people into reading the Word. It is the Word of God and is sufficient on its own.
I’m interested in knowing if others have noticed this taking place in an increasing amount in the past few years?
Filed under: Apologetics, Church Life, Emergent Church, Evangelism, Purpose Driven Madness, Seeker Sensitive
“Bait and Switch!” I have been using that phrase quite a lot while describing these man-made methodologies of late.
What confidence does the XXX movement (I can’t bring myself to call them a church) have in our Lord Jesus if they don’t believe that He alone is able to draw a person out of the depths of pornography?
How is a church to maintain any sense of Biblical integrity when they are using pornography to defeat pornography?
After drawing an individual toward your message while using a 15 foot phallus character with a smiley face… How does a person then turn around and effectively introduce the Good and perfect Holiness of our Lord and Savior, Jesus?
I suggest that if something so debased as this Walley character is what draws a person (somewhere) then the Jesus they will eventually meet in that place will either be terribly watered down or flat out false.
How is it that some pastors who have been given the gift of preaching and teaching don’t recognize they are called to simply READ and TEACH the word, and that they would have a more authentic flock to tend if they were to leave the marketing and drawing in to the Holy Spirit?
I am so sad about the trends of late within the Body of Christ. I shudder to think that the day is fast approaching when people will be crying out, “Isn’t there anyone who can teach me the Good and Perfect Word of God?”
They undermine their supposed conclusion (bringing people closer to God) from the beginning by doubting the power of what should be their premise: the Word.
The conclusion is that they heal superficially by
tr
Being an Arminian these things are a prostitution of that theology. They try and drag a sinner to Christ by misrepresentations that will appeal to the sinner instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to use God’s Word and make it relevant within each sinner’s heart.
The enticing word’s of men’s wisdom at the expense of the demonstration of the Spirit and power, both inherant in the Word of God.
Henry, thanks for that word. It is good to have agreement with an Arminian on these critical points.
tr
“I’m interested in knowing if others have noticed this taking place in an increasing amount in the past few years?”
I certainly have. Its disheartening to say the least.
luved your site!
check out mine at http://scripture4u.wordpress.com
yes, it is happening at an alarming rate. How about churches that are selling raffle tickets to people who come to church so they can win gasoline for a year? They must be doing a terrible job of preaching God’s Word, if they have to add these weird entertainment venues, then you know the people in the church are not being fed the Word of God. I wish they would all just run and get away from these churches!
Hey neogotchi, I almost deleted your comment suspecting it was a spam comment! I checked out your blog and it is very good. I loved your article on counseling and secret sins. Now THAT would be good advise for XXXChurch to be giving! Thanks for sharing.
If others are interested, here they are:
http://scripture4u.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/secret-sins/
http://scripture4u.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/on-christian-counselors-operating-from-non-christian-worldviews/
tr
Hey Brian, I heard of one church giving away a Wii. LOL. Oh Lord, come quickly!
tr
A Wii? Sweet! Salvation AND a Wii? Someone’s really gonna enjoy heaven
so… wow. i don’t even know where to begin on this one. oh wait! how about i make this statement: I AM STUDYING TO BE A PASTOR. WHEN I START THE CHURCH GOD HAS TOLD ME TO START, WE WILL PLAY HEAVY METAL PRAISE AND WORSHIP INSTEAD OF SINGING HYMNS. so is that blasphemous?
it’s amazing how so many christians are quick to judge and slow to understand. my church’s youth group has a wii, 4 xbox 360’s, a cafe, 3 plasma screen tv’s, 2 pool tables, 2 air hockey tables, 1 foosball table, and a rock band. what’s the point to all of this? the draw it has on young people. why do we want to draw them in? so we can lead them to Christ and mentor them. why do we want to lead people to Christ and mentor them? b/c it’s in the bible.
for crying out loud, the album is called “the OTHER f-word.” it’s not even called “the f-word” and you people are still criticizing it. please tell me why this is wrong. and use scripture.
maybe the other f-word is “faith”. that’s kind of a forbidden word by the world’s standards. you people don’t even know what this album is and you’re making fun of it.
Psycho,
Relax my friend and we can have a cordial chat. Let’s work through these, and while you are reading my words, ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you if there be any truth within them. Fair enough?
First of all, lets start with just how this “sounds.” You come across very arrogant as if to say, “God has told me something and you’re not going to criticize it because God has told it to me and that is just that!” This is not a Biblical approach to making decisions.
I would first recommend asking yourself “how” God has told you. God hasn’t told you anything that isn’t written in Scripture. He does not speak supernatural audible words to you individually, and if you claim He has then you are placing yourself on the level of a prophet and what He has told you on the level with Scripture. If you think that, you are deceived. God speaks to us today through the Scriptures, and that is His only revelation to us, and I do not recall a verse where He has told Psycho to start a church.
Perhaps you have a call to ministry? Great, the Bible does speak to that, and if there is a desire then there are qualifications to analyze. If have a desire and you pass those qualifications, great! Why not after your studies get with a church that has a matured pastor and learn from him? I recommend the book “Biblical Eldership” by Strauch, which may be helpful to you in that endeavor as well. Here is a link: http://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Eldership-Urgent-Restore-Leadership/dp/0936083115/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201016206&sr=8-2
I am not trying to discourage you from starting a church my friend. I pray for more churches to preach the Word every day. But this attitude of “I’m gonna start a church and I’m gonna do it THIS way because that is how I want to do it because that is how I think it should be done,” is not a Biblical approach to church nor a Biblical attitude.
Read the story of Cain and Abel. One worshiped God on God’s desires and one worshiped God on his own desires. There are different results and consequences for approaching and worshiping God on OUR demands verses on His demands. I exhort you brother to take a step back and analyze your attitude, words, and decisions from a Scriptural standpoint.
Notice that I have thus far addressed the attitude and calling, and I have not spoke to your “heavy metal instead of hymns” issue. That is on purpose because I think the attitude and heart, and how we hear a call is most important, and that can often get out of focus when things like music styles are brought into the dialog. With that priority in focus, I proceed to this point you made:
The issue here Psycho is not heavy metal or any style of music over another, the issue is “Why?” You see, when we approach “church” and worship with our desires on the front of our shields, we are revealing a heart problem that needs to be addressed. The real issue isn’t the preference itself (heavy metal music) that we are demanding, but that we are demanding it; and that is a heart issue that is a problem. If we say “I have to worship God with X preference,” and I am going to reach people with that same preference, we expose an unbiblical attitude and an unbiblical theology of conversion.
I explained this in the other post in response to your words there. I think my words are relevant here as well to make this point:
So when I hear people say things like you have said here:
…it is demonstrated that they don’t understand this point I just made about who causes conversion. It isn’t the sinner who listens well, or the evangelist who preaches well, it is God and Him alone who causes the changed heart and the conversion.
You say your approach is in the Bible, but I challenge you to show me one instance in the NT where people are corralled together by being appealed to by some desire in order that they be preached to. It isn’t there, and it definitely isn’t what “church” is in the NT.
In the NT “church” is the gathering of believers for the teaching and preaching of God’s Word, the fellowship with believers communion, and prayer. Unbelievers are welcome but the “church service” is not designed around their preferences. That is NOT in the Bible my friend. It is a cultural change that has happened in the last century and its root is an unbiblical view of salvation and conversion.
Psycho I commend you on your desire to reach others, especially youth and other groups that some churches aren’t focusing on. There is no problem with hanging out with kids and doing what they do (to a point) so you can speak to them. But that isn’t “church.” That is being a faithful witness, as all Christians should be doing. When the gospel is preached is should not be a false gospel of “come to our church because we are cool and have cool things you like, and if you like us and we like Jesus then you’ll like Jesus and we’ll all be cool with Jesus.” That isn’t the gospel. Once the opportunity to speak to someone is gained then the gospel of God’s holiness, our sin, and what HE did to reconcile us is what needs to be preached. When this is done God honors that, the Spirit convicts sinners and they become born again. Then they will desire to come to church to hear God’s Word and be with believers, and they will be dying to self and leaving their demands for certain preferences at home.
I admonish you brother to consider what “church” is for, and to consider what your doctrine of salvation and conversion is. It most certainly will change your views of methods if you change these views to Biblical ones.
Because it is using “shock jock” methods of getting a person to react by appealing to sinful things to “trick” them into seeing godly things. The motive may be right, but the approach is wrong.
For crying out loud, we have the Word of the Living God in our hands! It is sufficient and doesn’t need people to be culturally tricked into hearing it.
I don’t need to show a porn addict a naked woman to get his attention so I can speak truth to him. I just need to speak the truth. If God is working in his life he will listen. If he needs naked women to get his attention to look and listen to me, then his heart is probably not ready to hear the truth anyway.
Then why not call the album “Faith?”
You have mistaken speaking truth to an issue with “making fun.” Believe me, no one here is making fun of this.
tr
my lunch break is almost over, so i don’t have a lot of time to post at this moment. but i thought i would leave you w/ this:
1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
please interpret this scripture for me.
if you interpret that scripture the same way i do, then what’s wrong w/ having video game systems and rock music in church? and what’s wrong w/ naming an album “the other f-word” (which explicitly says on the cover that they are a christian band)? do you think people are sinning when they use targeted marketing? Jesus called for us to bear much fruit. so long as the word of God is not compromised, i don’t think there is anything wrong with using new methods to bring people to the gospel. especially if they are not sinful.
I’ve heard and seen this passage used many times to support a seeker-sensitive approach to church. I think flawed hermeneutics are utilized in order to come up with that interpretation. That is not at all what Paul was talking about.
First of all, Paul was not talking about church or church service in this passage, therefore it is incorrect to conclude that he means that we can entice the world to come to church by utilizing things that attract the world.
Notice the context of the passage you quote, “I have made myself a slave to all.” Paul is talking about being a servant to all people, not appealing to their desires.
In the passage above this Paul is talking about preaching the gospel, not gearing up a church service to appeal to sinners. Paul does not change the gospel message, but he does take notice of who he is talking to in order to meet them where they are. But not so he can meet their desires, but so they can understand the gospel.
When Paul goes to the Jews he knows they already understand the law and are already under its burden. Therefore he explains the gospel in a way that a Jewish mind already under the burden of the law can understand. However, when he goes to the Greeks he knows they are polytheists, so he starts with creation and explains that the true God is one and works from there to the gospel (Acts 17).
When Paul talks about how he “became as,” to different people, his goal was their understanding the gospel message, not “being like them” so they will like him, so they will like Jesus. If the way you interpret this passage were so, Paul would be saying that he became a polytheist so he could preach to the Greeks; clearly not what he was saying.
One way you can see the consistency of what I am saying is to look at the early church in the NT and see if that is how they operated “church.” Notice for example how in Acts chapter 5, after Ananias and Sapphira were killed on the spot by God for lying, the Scriptures say, “No one else dared join them” (Acts 5:13). That is NOT seeker-friendly!
When Jesus told them hard things and they left, He turned to his followers and said, “Are you going to leave too?” Why? Jesus would have failed a seeker-friendly evangelism program. He said this because the gospel is not “we have made the church tolerable by you and you can come with all your desires and we will meet them” message. The gospel message is that God is Holy, Unique, and Just, and we are rotten sinners who deserve Hell because of our sin, but in His infinite Love He made a way for us to be reconciled with Him. Repent and believe the gospel so you can be saved! Do you see the difference between what the Bible says about salvation and church verses what many churches are teaching?
A good friend of mine JUST posted a really neat blog called “Motivation for Godly Living.” I highly recommend reading it as I think it will help explain the difference between what you are saying and what I am trying to help you realize. Here it is:
http://barefootinthepark.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/motivation-for-godly-living/
Please read that before you respond to this comment. Thanks.
Well clearly I don’t interpret it the same as you, but the issue is how did Paul mean it? That is how we should interpret it.
I didn’t say it was wrong to have those things in church, I said that the reasons why many feel compelled to have them is rooted in wrong theology.
I’m pretty sure I adequately covered this.
I am not sure what you mean by “targeted marketing” but I think the motivation behind much of the market-driven church is sinful.
The gospel doesn’t need to be marketed, it needs to be preached clearly and accurately and the results left up to God, not man.
“Fruit” is not measured by numbers. In much of what I have spoken out against, the word of God is compromised severely.
Neither do I. I have said nothing against “new methods,” I have spoken against particular and specific methods that I think are wrong and not rooted in Scripture. Biblical methods are the issue. The gospel is relevant; it doesn’t need to be made relevant.
tr
Good post, Tony. These methods belittle God and His Word and make a mockery of his church. As I watched the video in this post: http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/01/you-call-this-c.html
I noticed that at the end of the performance they said “we want to welcome you to church”. How did the people respond? They laughed. They laughed. What a mockery.
Jesus said how we are to present ourselves to the world. He says in Matthew 5:16 “Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.”
Peter says in 1 Peter 2:12 “Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.”
According to a Greek lexicon, “excellent” used in this verse is defined as “beautiful, handsome, excellent, eminent, choice, surpassing, precious, useful, suitable, commendable, admirable”. If this should characterize how we as individual Christians live our lives before the world, then it applies to how the church should present herself to the world as well. Do any of the words in that definition described any of the examples Tony gave in this post? Not that I can see.
These churches that are of the flavor of the ones described in this post are presenting themselves to the world. They’re not doing it by letting their light shine so people will glorify God. They’re appealing to the sinful self-focused desires of the world. That flies in the face of Scripture.
Very well said Barefoot.
tr
In John MacArthur’s book “Ashamed of the Gospel: When the Church Becomes Like The World,” he speaks to this verse you ask about Psycho:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0fsy551WEkIC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=john+macarthur+1+cor+%229+19%22&source=web&ots=9JReyJwh_X&sig=AGiDZxE2sq0YltE8in8rD163-fg#PPA93,M1
Paul is talking in this passage about his personal liberty and what he is willing to do in order to preach the gospel so people can be saved. We should all as Christians be doing this in our walk. We should live in a manner that gives us the opportunity to witness to people, and we should go where the sinners are and preach to them; we don’t however participate in their sin in order to “win them over” or appeal to their flesh so we can “bait and switch” to the gospel.
But this personal liberty Paul speaks of is very different than what “church” is for.
There is a ministry in my hometown that gears itself towards making activities available to underprivileged kids. They have basketball games and meals, and after school events that any kids in town can wander into. Many do, and they use this as a springboard to have Bible studies and to witness and share the gospel. It is a great ministry and a reflection of what Paul is talking about. This however, is not a church or a church service.
In an effort to do such as this in a ministry, we don’t turn the church or the church service over to the preferences of unbelievers, or even believers. That is not the church’s purpose. It is fine to have a ministry like this, and it is part of the church’s purpose to use these ministries to reach others, because reaching others is part of the church’s purpose. But it isn’t to take the gathering of believers and turn it into a seeker-desire fest. This is because the proper worship of God, the teaching of the word, and the edification of the believers are also important parts of the purpose of the church as well.
tr
Yeah my own sister (who is a Christian) told me that she hates discussing politics with other Christians because all they seem to care about is the murder of unborn children. “It’s just one issue!”
Shock Jock Preaching: Yes, I just wonder why any preacher would take valuable time from quoting scripture and expounding upon scripture to present a ’sermon’, so called, in this highly offensive manner! What will it be like for them to stand before the Throne of God in Heaven?? Frightening! I also wonder if they do it for themselves to build themselves up and ‘be modern’ and in their own cleverness? It is beyond me what prompts this? Is is a shame. It is so anti- scriptural, anti spiritual. Our pastor was doing this more and more and I wrote to him concerned about it. Things have improved slightly but hints of it are always present. So sad!
Just a sign of the end times I think. I do pray more than ever for him and other preachers and thank our Lord for the preachers who preach the Word correctly and faithfully.
May our Lord continue to bless you and this CRN website!!!
Too many times people will point the way to the inside of a church, when they really should be pointing towards Jesus. John the Baptist said he must decrease, he was not looking for a huge following, it was not about him, it was about pointing the way to the Savior, to the Messiah that was coming. Unfortunately, too many games for Wii and the other playstation games, are all too often filled with sex, drugs and violence. How is it able to glorify God? and within a church setting nonetheless? I commend Psycho (not too sure about the use of psycho as a name for a pastor!), but I encourage him to study his bible daily. See how the NT church was organized. The reason so many churches are failing today is because they are always trying “new” things. Trust in the Lord to provide for you. Trust that God will do the saving. Just be faithful in preaching the whole gospel message. God’s Law, the need for repentance and the wonderful grace of God, Jesus dying on the cross for our sins.
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