Thanks for your comment. As a fellow “truth seeker” I understand much of your sentiments and agree. I live by this verse as well, for myself and for my words to others.

I’m glad the site has been helpful. Feel free to email me if I can be of further help in your truth-quest.

tr

I’m not a church-going Christian or anything but am researching this stuff out of interest. If anything I’d call myself a “truther”. This “truther” thing seems to be an organic movement born mainly out of the open information available on the internet.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that this statement of Pauls is to me one of the most relevant lines in the bible in this period in history.

As a “truther” I seek information over the internet about human history & try to discern between info/misinfo & disinfo. I think with the current state of the mainstream media people of today are really left wanting when it comes to learning about human history.

This statement of Paul’s is something I live nearly every day because I find one of the most important things I do with my life at the moment is trying to wake people up to the world around them. We live in strange & dynamic times & for the large part people have been brainwashed from an early age here in the Western world.

I’ve been to this site a few times now & it is really useful to me – I find the explainations very concise & easy to follow.

http://galatiansc4v16.wordpress.com/2006/08/11/speaking-the-truth-in-love-regardless-of-the-consequences/

You are right that Paul is talking to Christians and not to unbelievers, and in agreeing with that point, I don’t think it contradicts or disagrees with my original post (notice the last paragraph starts with the word, “Likewise,” because there is a transition from the subjects being “believers,” to comments related to them being “unbelievers,” and to the sharing the gospel.)

And even though Paul is directly commenting to believers, I don’t think we have a contradiction here. Paul never held back telling anyone the truth, whether it was a believer or an unbeliever, regardless of their suspected reaction to him. He also did it “in love,” and we should too as he exhorted us to (Eph 4:15).

The two points I would like to make about this discussion, and what I think Paul was getting at too, is that we can’t refrain from speaking the truth because we fear someone might react negatively to the message. That doesn’t give us the permission or prerogative however, to be unloving or attacking, but it does encourage the boldness to speak the truth in love, even if the truth itself is offensive. The Bible never gives us the right to be hateful in our speech, but it does exhort us to speak the truth, in love, regardless of the consequences. We can’t be offensive ourselves in delivering the message, but that isn’t an excuse to hold back the message of the cross, which is indeed, offensive to sinners.

Another point that I might add, is that offending with the truth, or speaking the truth in love, is only Biblical if we are speaking…the Truth! We don’t have the right to speak our opinions as truth and treat them the same as truth. Our opinions are nothing. If what we speak is not in accordance with The Word, which is Truth (John 17:17), then we have no business speaking it at all, much less being offensive with it. One thing I appreciate is that my pastor always makes it clear when he is expositing the Word verses when he is digressing to an opinion or a thought of his own. Although he does it rarely, he clearly labels his opinions as such so no one could be confused about what the Word of God is and what is the word of man. That is our charge as well.

Speak the truth, in love, making sure it is “the Truth,” and then as Paul exhorts, if that makes others dislike you personally, consider it worthy to be a soldier of the cross. If the apostles had analyzed what other’s reactions would be to the message of truth, and held back accordingly, they would not have died as martyrs.

Thanks for the great dialog guys!

I think we should always look for opportunities to share the Gospel, but there are times when we should back off. Jesus taught his followers to shake the dust off their feet if rejected, and He didn’t run after the rich young ruler when he went away sad. And the Gospel presentations in Acts seem to run closer to a “here it is, accept it if you like” approach than a “you’re going to hear this whether you like it or not” appeal.

I’m not saying, “can’t win, don’t try” with respect to non-Christians, just that wisdom and discernment are required. When speaking to Christians and to the non-Christians who are in church, we should be very bold. We should call out the false teachers as you and Slice do.

In Christ

Mike Ratliff

LOL. I read your latest article above. You are right that it takes boldness to say those types of things today. I am glad the Lord has some left that are willing to do it. Your calling out those who are supporting the emergent heresies reminds me of the controversy that Dr. Martin had when his tape publisher also published Dr. Schuler’s Sunday School materials, and would not produce his audio sermon on Dr. Schuler. He encounter the same type of fire you are about to get!

If you want to hear that and the other messages from Martin I have mentioned and posted about, your one stop Dr. Martin audio page is here:

You are hear monthly free messages here: http://www.waltermartin.com/realaudio.html

Or you can buy any that you want here: http://www.serve.com/rini/cart/perlshop.cgi

Um…what’s that they say about minds that think alike ha! O I would luv to have these DVDs you speak of…when I quote Martin lately I’ve been going my memory!

You might change your view of me though when you check out my latest article. Surely the guns from the evangelical church are likely to be turned on me after this one. It’s been nice knowing you

Well, hey – it was kinda started by your post here so maybe I can blame you when the firing starts!

Warping Our Young In Christ’s Name: http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/08/warping_our_you.html

But as my mentor before me said in that teaching “The Cult of Liberalism”: “I risk my credibility when I say it as bluntly as this; but I’ve done my homework, and I’ll stand by what I say.”

Thanks for posting the link to your article (I updated my categories to include emergent and seeker-sensitive categories based on your response and link). Your words ring so true and are what I have been saying for years from my own research.

I have done like you, read Kimball’s book and Jones’ blogs, etc. and given these folks a fair shake. Many people don’t like their errors being exposed but Walter Martin, nor Paul himself ever backed away from calling a heretical ace a heretical ace. The problem is in our postmodern world the only thing that is wrong is saying something is “wrong.”

I laughed when you were quoting Martin from his encounter with Jan Crouch. I have that on DVD and it is a hilarious exchange which I quoted just this past weekend! Look at the following two posts I did earlier and you will see that I am well aware of that! You are the only person I know that quotes Martin more than me!

http://galatiansc4v16.wordpress.com/2005/12/06/baptism-of-boldness-dr-walter-martin/

http://galatiansc4v16.wordpress.com/2005/06/27/censored-for-telling-the-truth/

tr

Very well put my brtiher! You hit the proverbial nail right on it’s man-pleasing head. As you know, this whole mess in American evangelicalism happened because they have dragged the world into the Church. With it came a misplaced love for man which is actually above their love for God now.

I don’t mean to suggest it was intentional, but that doesn’t change the fact, does it? The neo-liberal cult of the Emerging Church is a classic example. We have been so busy not wanting to offend people that we have literally invited brazen counterfeit Christians like Brian McLaren to walk right into the sanctuary of our Lord’s Church, paid him to stand in front of God’s pastor-teachers and then teach them how to doubt what the Holy Spirit said in HIs Bible.

A couple of quotes from Dr. Martin come to mind: “This is Christianity? No, this is madness.” If you don’t mind my broher I’d like to ask people to read my article “Emergent: Believe It…Or You’re Not…” to see what is really at stake here: http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/08/emergent_believ.html

Let me tie this back into what you say above Tony, “if we truly love others more than ourselves, we will persist despite their objections.” For those who think we are too harsh, I ask that you think about the other thing Martin said on this critical issue. He was once told by Jan Crouch on TBN: “You don’t show enough love.”

I paraphrase Dr. Martin’s answer in regard to our having to boldly confront so much arrogant error in evangelicalism today. Brother Martin would say: I have spent this entire past year doing your job in personally dialoguing with EC leaders. To try and protect your young people, I have also taken money out of my own pocket to pay for, and then study from, the very books that these men have written. And now I’m unloving? Wwll, what have you done?